Life and Books and Everything
Life and Books and Everything

Episode 14 · 1 year ago

Tears Do Not Equal Repentance


In this episode of Life and Books and Everything, Kevin, Collin, and Justin discuss the recent scandal involving Jerry Falwell Jr. and the difference between a therapeutic confession and one that admits guilt and sin, what habits of rest and recreation they practice, what their favorite biblical commentaries are, and lastly, they discuss Samuel James's article, "Which Enemy? Which Doorstep?"

This episode of Life and Books and Everything is brought to you by Crossway. A specific book from Crossway we would like to highlight for our listeners is Family Discipleship: Leading Your Home through Time, Moments, and Milestones by Matt Chandler and Adam Griffin. In this book, Matt Chandler and Adam Griffin help families develop a sustainable rhythm of gospel-centered discipleship through a guided framework focusing on moments of discipleship in 3 key areas: time, moments, and milestones. Each section provides parents with Scriptures to consider, questions to answer, structures to implement, and ideas to try out.


Book giveaway winner announcement! [0:00 - 3:10]

The Jerry Falwell Jr. Scandal [3:10 - 15:55]

Habits of rest, recreation, and sabbath [15:55 - 36:50]

Favorite Commentaries [36:50 - 59:48]

Multi-Directional Leadership [59:48 - 1:10:08]

Book recommendations

Collin's favorite commentaries + other resources mentioned:

New Testament Commentary Survey by D. A. Carson

The Letter to the Romans (New International Commentary on the New Testament (NICNT)) by Douglas Moo

ESV Study Bible by Crossway

Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament by D. A. Carson and G. K. Beale

Blind Spots: Becoming a Courageous, Compassionate, and Commissioned Church by Collin Hansen

Kevin's favorite commentaries:

Introducing the Old Testament: A Short Guide to Its History and Message by Tremper Longman

The Gospel according to John (The Pillar New Testament Commentary (PNTC)) by D. A. Carson

The Pillar New Testament Commentary (14 Volumes) from Eerdmans

The Book of Revelation (The New International Greek Testament Commentary) by G. K. Beale

Preaching the Word: New Testament Set by R. Kent Hughs

Reformed Expository Commentary Series from P&R Publishing

Tyndale Commentary Series from IVP Academic

Justin's favorite commentaries:

ESV Expository Commentary Book Series from Crossway

The IVP Bible Dictionary Series from IVP Academic

Readings and salutations are loyal.Listeners welcome back to life and books and everything I am young, withJusta Taylor and common handsone good to have you with us as we start season two of episode toobrought to you again by our good friends at crossway. We actually dohave lots of good friends there Justin's going to remain silent becausehe cannot speak about the unnamed Publishing Company for which he works,but Colin and I can say, lots of good things and how much we appreciatecrossway and are glad to have their support for the show we did want toannounce. Last week's winter of the book give away ooh. Now I don't have itin front of me Colin. Was it John Dyer Tat ure? I don't think that's who itwas now there's somebody out there saying Idid win. Okay, you pull that up. Well, I'm go. I O you're Goingna Poo aboutthe book that we want to highlight today from excellent matchchambler. Youpull that up. Okay, the featured book today, my friends, a crossway is calledfamily disciple ship, leading your home through time moments and milestoneswritten by Matt, Chandler and Adam riffin. I talked with Matt for myGospel Bound Pot. PODCAST had a really interesting interview. This book reallyhits me right at just my life stage. I've got a a childwho just started kindergarten, another child who just started preschool, andit is the joy of our family for me to H, Bang out some really H, not very goodnotes on a piano while we're singing from the methodist temnal and ragingthrough one of the many h story, bibles that we've accumulated and also throughthe new city catechism. So we love this sort of formal family discipleship, butthen also the kind of diciplship they talk about of, while you're going onthe way from the moment to moment in life. So anyway, if you're, if you re,you love family, O, ciplship, you're, looking to get to figure out how to doit wherever you are in that spectrum, Ithink you will appreciate family dicipleship, leading your home throughtime moments and milestones from Mat, chailer and Adam Griffin. That'sgratling. Did you find that I did soin a Yor hat and later in the podcast herewe're going to talk about commentaries, and so I was just working. I was justlooking at that best commentary site and I saw that at the bottom. It isdeveloped by Dohn Dyer. So I had that name in my head. Sorry Don, but thewinner Nwere on you won nothing John. Yes, the the winters actually drewbuyers. So there was. There was a reason why I was thinking, drew buyersand we will get his mailing address and send those crossway books before wedive in no one else will get this, but as we're we can see each other on thescreen. Even though you just hear US Colin, could you put your camera downjust a little bit you just all I can see is like Mo Goron, okay, good, thisbetter yeah, okay, all right Oor, most of your head is there Oh now, Justinyou've gotten way to e you've, goten way too big. Okay, we are going to talk aboutseveral things and one that we weren't planning on talking about until twominutes ago, and we won't spend Oh, we hope more thanfive minutes on this, but I think all three of us did want to at least try to draw somelesson from ongoing embarrassment. There's no otherword for it, then, is the Jerry Falwell junior scandal, the latest incident, ifyou don't know what it's about the details are too salacious even to want to try toexplain, but the suspended anddefinitely President ofLiberty University came out with a statement which was covered by theWashington examiner earlier today and then the the pool boy. You can't make thisup. U came out with his side of the story and Reuters and here's. It is it's. It's an absolute embarrassment to the church, toChristian education, to the name of Christ. There's n there's no other wayto put it, but I don't think any of us want todwell so much on Jerry Falwell junior as we do. What issymptomatic of larger potential problems and actual problems in thechurch, and that's just to to talk for a moment about the confession, and if you could see me onputting that in airqutes the apology that he issued, which I told you guys earlier today,was an we also were trying not t to soundlike...

...self righteous h jerks here. But there is some criticismthat is is fairly due. It sounded like a Master class in aworldly apology. It minimized his own sins, describing them in vagaries and describing them with euphemism'sweaknesses. Failure to be vulnerable, while other people's sins weredescribed in detail and then took a quick turn to the therapeutic, and Icounted no fewer than four times where he made himself out to be the victim ofeither other people's sins against him or difficult difficulty speaking and he had toovercome that and being liberties president or his wife sends against him. This otherman sins against him and now suffering from mental illness and depression.There was nery a word of the incident which led to his suspension orindefinite leave of absence, and it is all too common among not only celebrities or famous people,but regular Christians. We turn quickly toward the therapeutic instead of usingstrong diblical, honest language, to describe our sins into express earnestrepentance and, and that to me is the lesson that we can draw, perhaps amongmany and is maybe worth dwelling on for just a couple of minutes. What do yousay? Justin? I completely agree with you Kevin, andit is a part of a larger trend that you and I, and the three of us have talkedabout more than once more than having to do with Jerry Fallwell. Almost everyapology that we see almost every confession, leaves God out of it,except for demanding or expecting forgiveness and non judgment, but thesin is always expressed horizontally. I have sinned against these people andnever against God, which is in start contrast. The Way David talks about hissin and Salm, fifty one that, first and foremost, I mean David Sen againstBashebe, a d sent against lots of people, but first in foremost, he saysI send against to you and you only Lord there's, a God centeredness to theconfession. That's just striking the UBSIT and a lot of these confessionsand then, as he brought up the euphemisms I mean one that just always gets under byc skin isdescribing fornication and adultery and covenant breaking is inappropriate and inappropriaterelationship, and I think something that's inappropriate is if I'm at adinner party, apoliteminter party and I belth Wheri, commit a social PHOPO.That's nothat's ever happened; a has never happened. Theoretically, if itdid, that would be inappropriate, behavior, but even to descrybe breakingyour covenent vows to be sexually engaged with somebody WHO's,not your spouse, to sint against the Lord that we ddescribe. That is inappropriate. I don't think that even registers on mostChristians Rad ar screens as they read that kind of language SUC's just butit's worldly language, that's always downplaying ittends- to highlight whatsomebody else has done against me tends to offer some excuses for. I was reallyunder dress. I I can think of one example of a pastor who confessed usinto his congregation and it was so theologically oriented that it wasstriking. He'd talked about sitting against God. He talked about theidolatry in his life. He didn't give any excuses. He didn't blame anybodyelse. He said I've disqualified myself from MIN public ministry, have nointention of ever seeking that again. All of that was striking because it'sso rare, the therapeutic, I think, is deeper in our bones than most of uswant to admit- and you said before, just in that the language of failure, or you know, messed up. You know that thatsort of sounds like somebody, you know grandpa sort of Tustling, your head andsort of. Oh you little rascal you when the bibles words are strikingwords of wickedness sin: Iniquity, transgression,think of CS Lewis's essay from the forties about the AnglicanLitergy, where it calls us to describe ourselves as miserable offenders andalready then people were taking a fence at that language, but that sort oflanguage serves a purpose of reinforcing a biblical world view.Colin, I think I I cut you off where you cal add o I d n't. I don't have alot to add. I just this has been a topic of conversation for some time,because it's one thing. If this were...

...characteristic of the world and we werepointing fingers saying see we, Christians have been called to adifferent standerd. The examples that we're siting here arefrom Christians, and not just from Christians Christian's in very highprofile positions. I profile pastors university presidents. The therapeutic has just insaid is moreingrained in US than we want to admit, and perhaps is more ingrains in us thanbiblical patterns, and that has to that has to change. I oftenthink that we become as Christians so worried about what's happening in theworld, that we don't see what what the world is doing to us and that we need to be more concerned aboutthat, not exactly sure what else to say, but this is not about. I saw somebodycomplaining that this is all about overweening coverageabout fullwell yeah. I can complain about how media will fixate oncertain figures,who are famous for being famous media figures and that feedback loop thatbecomes really H, really unhelpful, but main problem here is that Christiansare being expected to follow standards that Christians are ourselves called to uphold. So in some way it's really weird that the churchor the world is asking the church. Why aren't you acting like the Church andthe church is saying? Why do you expect us to be any different from the world? It's a very weird position that we'rein, and I have to think that it also has to do with a lot of our primarilypolitical orientation or are sort of as versus them culture, war orientation.That makes us think that these things are not serious which they are, and itreminds us how important for the Christian words are in language that the the war is often fought on thelevel of words before it's fought anywhere else course talking ametaphoric, but it's very true that we, I mean just think of the languageof brokenness, which has some. There are few examples in the Bible ofusing that sort of language to describe sin in terms of health and UNHEALTH,and I understand why people use the language of broken it signifies. Idon't work. The Way I ought to sin has done something that there's there'ssomething not right in me and in the world, all of that's true, but byitself and without, I would say, more robustly Biblical language at least thepreponderance of Biblical language broken describes us in passive terms.You break your arm. Something happened to you th there there's not immoralcomplicity when your arm is broken, or you see this language all the time it'sin the culture, it's an Christians. You know someone. If it's a drinkingproblem know e's been overcome by these demons. Again, I am perfectly willingto talk about nuances of genetic disposition to things and how, at apoint, addictions no longer feel as if you're, in control of those things, andwe have lots of theological resources to talk in very nuanced ways about sinin the experience of sin, but it should not be to overshadow moralresponsibility for those sins and that so often what the therapeutic languagedoes is. It renders US passive agents in our lives and we do away with morallanguage a vice and virtue, and we only have people who are hurting who arebroken, who are put upon. I remember David Polison, often saying lots of theCCF gus that everyone you meet is simultaneously a sufferer and a sinner,and you do need to remember both. There are some Christians who only they onlysee year o sinner and they need to be reminded know that person walks with alimp as it were, that person you don't know where they've been through whatissues they've had to deal with they're sufferer, but for most people. It'sit's way on that side and is forgetting that we are also free moral agents inthe proper sense of that freedom who are sinners and must repent before aholy God. Anything else from you guys before I move us on and history. I Ithink just to reiterate what you're saying brokenness in an of itself isnot a terrible metaphor. It is terrible if it's the only metaphor that you useso to go back to you know the little quip from packer whole untruthmascrating as the whole truth is a...

...complete untruth or a half truth.Mastring is the whole truth is a complete untruth, so it it's not aproblem to to see that as one aspect of our fallin condition, but when itbecomes the only thing that we talk about that becomes deeply problemantic.The other thing. I think that, as a practical lesson is that you can't tellrepentance from amount of pears that somebody sheds wand, Jerry Falwell,might be crying himself to sleep. Every single night of somebody in our church,who might sin, might even confess their sin might feel very broken and weep alot, but we have to probe deeper for what's ther understanding of the natureof sin and how does it get fixed and once you start listening for the wordsbehind it, I think that is a revealing of the heart, which is why the Bibledoesn't say that repentance is you know. Teers are sufficientcondition for repentance. We need to see the fruits of repentance is anotheraspect of it. That's very good, heres Wso we're going to talk about now. We've had a few questions from listeners and byfew I I could mean Um thirty I could mean to or could be two yeah two orthree no oi Om Wer in between maybe in the hundreds. Maybe it was her mom'sbut othousand. Yes, we've had um people have asked paraphrasing here.Would you guys talk a little bit about your habits of rest? Maybe Habits ofrecreation? What it looks like family time. I know it not want to turn thisinto just US sharing about our own personal lives as as fun as that wouldbe for us, but I think the gist behind the question might be. You guys talkabout all these books and that's great, and maybe you have jobs that allow youto read a lot of books but wh. What else do you do and are you justploughing through books? All the time? Are you normal people? What do you doto prioritize rest? Recreation, family in your life calling Yo. You want togive us some thoughts on that wet. U Go round the horn ear! Sure well, just list a few things that Iwrote down here. I really enjoy walking whon things tas wonderful about walking!Is that it's exercise you can do it with family and friends very easy toconverse in that way. You can also do that and pray. So a lot of differentadvantages, one of the things that my wife and I prioritized and where wemoved was a place that we could walk a lot of places too. So that's one thingswimming I mean is Alabama is the summer if you go swimming as a family,if you got little kids opportunities to get in the water, that's always fun.One best things I love about swimming is that I can't you can't use my phoneWHI'm swimming. Will my water? Well, I'm in the water you're, not calling menot texting me. I've got my full attention, an get another thing that you get topray during that time if by myself, just sort of floating around there inthe water. That's really nice m actually do sleep a fair bid. I knowthat there are people out there who can get by on fourhours AFSLEEP or five hours ofsleep and that's that's often a a short cut forsomebody who does more than you think that person does well. Maybe they maybethey just don't sleep as much. You don't need as much sleep. Well, maybethere are people who don't need enough sleep, but I aim for between seven andeight hours every night, and I find that if I don't this goes all the wayback to college. If I don't I'm going to end up falling asleep in theafternoon anyway, so I'm not going to be very productive than either Um. Ialso think that when you have clear times of working and not working, ithelps you to do e more efficient with your actual work. So that's one thing.I know if I have to get these things done and not that I'm going to have four more hours ofwork at night. That's going to take me to two. I M in the morning actuallyhelps me to be more efficient and selective during my day also try towork out at least three or so three or four times a week. I've found that Ipersonally need to get outside of the house for a long time. A decade I usedto work out in the House T at was fine, but it just. I need a regular timeoutside of my house to be able to do that, and that makes a really bigdifference and finally, reading is restful for me, but the keyis to have a lot of different kinds of books, um some of the books that I read,I'm actually listening to when I'm walking or when I'm in the car or whenI'm slicing a watermelon or washing dishes, or something like that. Butgenerally I want a lot of different kinds of books and when I'm exhaustedI've been working hard, I've been around a lot of people. The way that Irecharge is by being by myself an reading books and can usually getthrough a lot that way. So a lot of...

...different types, different people aregoing to like different things, but um I'm just grateful. Those are some ofthe things that I do that work pretty well. Are You an introvert Colin onthat scale? I am mixture so when I'm extroverted, I'm really extroverted andthen after, like I'm at a Gospel Coalition Conference, or you knowsomething like that, I mean I can really enjoy that for three days andthen for the next three days, I'm at home, and I don't want to talk to asingle person and I'm reading a bunch of books. I need to get away a saw thatworks for me. What aboth of you guys do for your Sundays. I've always you know, that's a Sabbeth in a way forme, but as a pastor, it's you'r working. It's also not what does that look like about you, Justin Yeah? We go to church in the morningand have a small group in the evening, so those are kind of two we don't haveevening church at our church, but our small group usually gathers on Sundayevening so that kind of creates two. At least places where we're going and topoints in the day Um, I think it my ideal self. We would justbe not doing anything, not cleaning thehouse not going anywhere on on Sundays, but in reality that doesn't usuallyhappen. So was it gin o the two fixed points of Watter, our Sundays? Looklike do you watch football on Sunday o? Would you latch sports big, ten well on Sundays? I'm foundableyeah. I don't have a privileged Savateri, an objection to watching in SL football on Sundays, but it is an interesting thing with,and I don't know how you deal with this Kevin with multiple kids like Um having an older son like that wouldbe something we could do together, but I could not necessarily do that withthe tozzle. So sometimes I have to sacrifice those desires and do otherthings. COMON. Do you watch sports on Sunday? I do Um, and I think I always have I do have theback of my head, though wondering the old puritan objections to thosethings, just wondering how much more worldly I am than I realize. I don'tthink I quite notice that so much when it comes to sports, as I do with Um as I do with movies, especially eventhough I've changed my movie watching habits quite a bit, especially inrecent years, but um I will say when you live in Alabama, it's easier to bea Sabaterian, because you're colleg Yor your football day is Saturday YeahYouryou're, your idolatous worship, servicesonexactly. So it's totally sanctioned no eaway on Saturday night and thenyou're free to conpes your sins. It is, it is funny our church yeah, our churchdoes four four services on Sunday and we've never thought of doing a Saturdaynight service and to my friends in other parts of the country. They'lloften just say I D n't. I don't understand why? Would't you do aSaturday night service, and I said I I think you know anything about what thatwould look like in Alabama. That's just not going to happen so o thinkresurrection was on Sunday morning and there's something togathering onResurrection: Lords, TA, Yeah Th. That's also true. I have my otherobjections, I'm just we just speaking on the track to caragmatic ground there.So I don't. I don't usually hear people raise those H, those objections, butthat's a good point, though okywhat about you. What about you Kevin justSunday's in general, I'm again you're working! So why don't you talk? I meanyou've written a whole book yeah on these things, crazy, busy and SOMyourest y? U Now you are one of the most like you're, the one one of themore Um accomplished people. I know, meaning you really when you set yourmind to do something you get it done when you make a promise to somethingyou follow through on him, and I don't say that lightly because I don't know alot of people th, where that's really true. The way that I is with you, andso it Ma makes me think there must be some secret. You either don't sleep oryou never see your children or your marriageis. An Shamo o Pol this offyeah Um yeah, it's kind of hard to talk about, because that sounds reallyimpressive and it certainly doesn't feel that way at all m. But it is aquestion. I've gotten, you know: How do you write these books or these bogs wo?Do these things I mean I'll. Give you very honestly I'll. Tell you thething's right off the bat that I'm bad at Um. It has always well no! Oh! Ithas been hard since I've been a pastor to have the sort of Sabbath that Iinstruct my pastoral students to have, and I tell them that I say I'm going totell you what you ought to do and I'm going to be honest that I'm I'mstruggling through this because Sunday is a type of you know. It is worshipeven for the pasture hopefully, but yeah it's not a day off so um. I try totake Saturdays off when my kids are... school. Otherwise, maybe Monday,I've tried lots of different days off and they're all hard for me Saturday.It works best with my family, but I mean honestly, it's very rare that I'm I'm not stillhaving to finish work on ha sermon and get ready for Sunday, but at least I'mhome, and I can mow the lawn and I can do stuff with the kids and it's not anintense day of pressure so that I'm not good at that. I'm you guys probably cantell I'm not good at putting away email, a d and texting. Now you guys isone thing you're. My friends is kind of like hanging out with my friends. It'sall the other checking that that comes in so M. I've I've for years, wanted tobe better at that and read lots of books and there's lots of good ideas,and I just need to execute that to not check email incessantly, Iam a zero inbox gy. So I get it and I gotta get it out of there a justin. Are you a zeroinbox guy or maybe I should say how many Zeros at the end of your inbox,the little button says forty two thousand. How can you do that? You Ti? I could' US real this afternoon. If Iwanted to, I have done that Ber j jubil, an email Jubelie, is just gone,that's horrible! I mean I wish that I could be like. I think I could say it'slike Mark Defer, who, just you send him e mail. He may write you back in twoseconds and call you on the phone or you may never hear from him, and hefeels no shame whatsoever. You sent me an email, twoyea ater does'N, O yeah,sometimes it it is actually, two years later he was cleaning through his emailand and will call random people who asked him a question. So I don't do those things well. I dothink some things that my God's grace have been good to get in placees. I doexercise every day but Sunday, so I run biker swim and that has been a reallygood habit for me since twenty fourteen and has served me well Um, I I don'tfeel guilty when I'm not working, I don't think that's. I can't have apropensity to overwork, but it's not because I feel guilty like I should bedoing something. I love to rest. I love to not be on the grind on the clock. UmSleep, I'm like you, Colin people, often ask me: You must give four hoursasleep. No, maybe there are few people who can dothat, but I think for ninety nine percent of people. I say you can borrowsleep, but you can't steal it. You guys. Do you guys know anybody? You don'thave to name names because know anybody who gets like four hours of sleep andnight and is really healthy. I've heard I hear of people's secondand third hand. Oh, but I not sure I know anybody first hand tha up clotesthat I can verify. Yes, that's actually healthy. What about you Justin uh, Idon't think so, maybe one but most of the guys that I've heard that abouttend to crash later and not be healthy. So I that's for examples. That's what Iwas going to say. I want. I want people to hear thes bidgas and understand that if you, if you're, listening or you're watchingand you're just wondering, I don't know how this person pulls things off. Often they aren't pulling it off. I wasjoking about that earlier with Kevin, and I I appreciate this behind thescenes. Look. But if you hear somebody say yeah, I only need four hours ofsleep a night. Maybe that's true, I'm sure it is true for somebody, but myexperience is like justice that person. Then you end up hearing about them inthe hospital yeah. That's what I said you can borrow sleep, meaning, okay,you have deadline and you get four hours ofsleep. Even you have a stretchseveral days, maybe a week where you're you're really dragging- and you needcaffeine to get you through. But you can't steal eventually that borrowingofsleep you will have to pay it and your body will shut down. You will getdepressed. You will not be in a good place spiritually and you will beforced because of God's kindness to remind us of our finitude to make upfor that. So I I almost always get more than seven hours, asleep, seven and ahalf. I can feel good seven. I can be OK under that. I start getting bad shape, but you know if I'm workingat home, which is maybe two or three days a week. I take a I'm a great powernapperfifteen twenty minutes. I can wake up just like that and be VereryChurchiliin view. Well, it really helps me get through the rest of the day, andI I'd like to think. If you were talking my kids, they would tell youthat I do lots of fun things with them. Iplay around with them. I'm you guys know I'm often running to pick up kidsfrom once sporting event or play...

...practice or bring them to somethingelse. So I certainly feel like I'm very engagedas a husband or father, not to say that my wife hasn't had to appropriatelyscold me at times. Kevin Are you here? Nor are you here what's going on in the world? Is itmore interesting than what's going on right right now? This is when you, whenyou have your phone e, just what I have my phone, but we have patterns of youknow we have a late dinner. We watch jeopardy every night that I'm home toturn it on now wheel of fortune, not a huge wheel of Fortu Fan, but it it's onafterward. So it kind of stays on and sort of sucks you in, but you just wantto be able to watch all those political ads in North Carolina. It is nonstoppolitical ads. I told you that my my eleven year old son- I don't know if hesitt at about Calcuntingham or Tom Tillas, who are running for Senate, buthe said wwhy. Does he keep playing politics with the Pandemic Dad Yeh? So there are lots they are really.I mean they are really hilarious to a point, because everyone's tough on China Dad. Whyaren't you tough on China and everyone is, you know, there's agreat one for C cunting against CAL Cuttingham. He raised taxes, so hecould buid a wet bar in his house in a Butler's pantry higher on taxes for youbutlers for him, but then there's thrthere's the same one against TomTilles. He raises he allowed drug manufacturers, so you can't get yourmedicine and you die. THERE'S DEMON ONE! A few cycles backremember that, like a goat demon with a ate Mi goatrunning around with red eyes, yeah we've we've Gone Farfestan. We didn'tgive you a lot of time to talk about what else do you do? Family Life? Yougot a big family and you has it been a healthy move to go to Soux city. Hasthat been good for these things? It has been it's Ah really nice to be around family. Ican't remember if we've talked about this on the show but H my wife and Ihave been married twenty two years and we have never lived within a hundred somiles of family. So last year in August we moved back and bullsets of parentsall in their seventies, live here and two siblings on each side, twelvenieces and nephews. So that ends up being a lot of our time, decompressingtime relational time, trying to hang out with them and it's been been really encouraging. Ithink probably friendship time has cut down actually in the move and a lot ofit has to do with Covid as well. Andem Iain Yah, so yeah. Maybe this is a goodplace to talk about like what not to do, because you guys are so good andeloquent at what to do, but I mean I think that t the lockdown has been in some ways. It's been good for DECON,pressing and rest an some ways. It's been more anxiety, an there was a tweatby a guy. In the U K James Shrimpton, whom I follow on twitter, and I think Ishared it with you guys, but he said covent niten has helped us rediscoverthe power of place. This is my place of work. This is my place of genship. Thisis my place of rest when all those places blure together it comes hard toprepare your mind and heart properly. For any of them, that's been bad for mein sightful, Yo has been hatting for me, so something that's been restfulhistorically. Is You know, I'm I have my family life and I'm in my house andthen I get out of my house and I drive to work, and I have my work time andthen I leave work and I go back to my family and then I leave there and driveto the Church Building Uffor an elder meeting for worship service and whenall of those three are sort of combined and you're doing church on T V andyou're working from home and you're doing family life. It feels like all three of them areless than optimal and I don't know that I would have thought that theEredicallar in the abstract but kind of living through it. It is, I think,challenging. So I feel that even though there's morekind of downtown there's not commute time working from home, we are not. Wedon't have to work a home now our CHURCHIS, open and and smaller, and cando the social distance. That's really good, I would just say an then you guyscanchime in any last thaugce before Wi move on that. You know. We need to know ourselves ourour gifts, our interest. We need to know our wives also, maybe I'm thinkingin particular any men listening in ministry or Passoral Ministry that weneed to know our wives and some of them are wonderfully plegmatic easy goingothers. Maybe they run a really tight ship in the home, but also maybe oundtighter themselves. Those aren't pejorative expressions just we need toknow and not assume that we can be the...

...sort of person or husband or fatherthat we see someone else being or whether that's a good example or badexampe overtime. My wife and I somewhat seriously have had different differentpeople that are off limits like you cannot compare me to this person,who is so obviously a much better father than I am like th, it's just offthe charts or he's buying all the groceries, cooking, all the meals yes,and talking about you, Jason Holopolis, can't compare me to that. That'sabnormal and then I'll say, but this person who doesn't allow his family tobe in the house when he's watching football, because it's his time. Okay,I'm not that so we're just set some of those off limits, but I think one ofthe things that you K ow people- can give me too much credit. Yes, I hopethat I work hard and maybe have the ability to work quickly in some ways, but you haveto remember many of the things that I'm doing have a a public face to them, sothe productivity, I'm writing, I'm speaking uh bodcast. So much of whatI'm doing has a public face to it so you're, seeing the productivity wheresomeone whose ministry is you know walking with someone in a tensecounseling situation for two hours every week for two years, you're notgoing to see that and it's everybit as important or more important than thethings that I'm doing so just need to understand that our ministry, whetherthat's public or private, vocational or not, doesn't need to look like everyoneelse's. Any last word from you guys. No, I want to hear about yourcommentary pracokay. Here we go commentaries. We've had also requestsfrom two to two thousand of our listeners.Would you talk about commentaries? Let me give this as a preface an ALTERNATO.You guys to talk about some. We can go a number of dfferentdirections. You can talk about individual authors that hey. If theywrite a commentary, you should get it. We can talk through some of the series.I know that not everyoneprobbly most of the people listening this aren'tpastors, but a lot are, or due Bible studies of one kind or another, andthen we can talk about resources that we might use to evaluate commentaries.Here's my one comment of preface- and that is to say I'm amazed at the different patternsthat different pastors use with commenteries every paster is goingto use t e commentary, some of them lean on them very heavily otherslightly. I think it's certainly wise to not start with your commentaries. Thatcan be a way to get the Commentari to do all the work for you, unless you know sometimes I'll go tothem quickly. If I'm at our impass right away this message ago, one of two differentdirections, depending on what this verse means and I'm kind of stump. Solet me make sure I get my bearings, but generally you want that to be at theend of the process. I have typically been the the type of guy who will zeroin on three or four commentaries I really like, and then, after that Ifind that they're saying all the same things, but I culd name several men that we all know good preachers whotell me that they have seventeen twenty one. I mean they have dozen two dozen commentaries they useevery single week and if there are people feeling pressure to do that, letme be your Christian freedom that you don't have to do that. What's your practice, when you guyshave prepared Bible Studies Hore, I know both of you have done preachingbefore Whith your practice with commentaries and then take us throughsome of your favorites Colin. Well, I'm going to make a coupleoverall comments and then I'm in mostly focus on asking you guys questions,because I feel like I'm allowed to learn here. One of the most helpfulthings for me has been to ask the question up front of WHO's the audiencethe discommentary and also listen, that a question half for you guys. Do you goby series or do go by author? Typically, people go by author, but they buy byseries, so that can be really confusing I' love for you guys to walk throughthat as a pastore and then as a publisher. What people should do there,but there's such a variety of what you're looking for in terms of theaudience- and I think that's also my main frustration with Commentaris- isthat a lot of commentaries are used by pastors, but they're written byacademics and theyapparently have been written for other academics. Now,that's not true of all common cemetary writers, and it's not true of allseries, but that's the most consistent...

...frustration I run into is that I'll,dig in and I've learned a lot about the history of interpretation. Of thispassage, I will learn a lot about some of the particular problems that arepresented Um, but I haven't really learned a lot thatI find to be actionable for people. It's sort of a Oh, that's interestingand that's probably important for a scholarly discussion, but I'm really not sure how 'm supposeto translate that and N. I'm not just looking for homoletical commentaries.Here I understand that's what I'm saying: There's differences there, butit's just weird that the market is with pastors and teachers,and yet so often the academics are writing to each other. So you're you'reset up for a difficulty from the very beginning with commentaries. That's onethat I've just consistently struggled with, even as somebody who tries tokeep my biblical languages functioning Um, and so I appreciate thecommentaries that will still use. I mean I'm not usually going to find alot of insight from a commentary that isn't using the biblical languages. Sothat's that's important for me there, but that just makes the academicproblems a little bit more more onorous. So let me put in a plug for D, aCarson's commentary on the commentary. This was my first resource. It has beenmy first resource pretty much whenever I'm teaching from a new book and Idon't usually get a chance to preach thirty seven messages of the same book,so I'm usually popping in to a series or I'm lecturing at a college orsomething like that or I'm writing a book on something so Carson'scommentary on commentaries which gives me a range of the theologicalperspectives, the quality of the writing, w e the audience of okay. This is fouracademics. This is for pastors. This is a really good series. This is this is agood series, but its is a bad Um. This is a bad artic or a bad version aditionin there. So that's that's my big plug and I think I mean we're lucky thatsome of the more is dynamic or exciting books of the Bible, like Romans, havehad so many of our best biblical commentators like Dougmou, turned tothem, and I've really benefited from that. So that's one commentary thatstands out to me, but on the book of Romans, it'd be hard to go wrong.You've got some real depth there. You also have some history, so I'mwondering I'll turn it back to you first Kevin and then Justin. I wouldlove to get your broader perspective on putting together these series and andwhat that would look like, also or what that's looked like in the s study Bible,which I need to say when I'm teaching short messages, and Ineed something quick. Yes, we study bibles the place that I go for thatstuff Um. If, especially, if I'm just leading a home group- and I have toturn something around quickly- it's amazing how much really great materialI can just get out of the ESP Study Bible. A Justin was the editor for Umand I don't have to dig through all those commentaries but Kevin. My mainquestion would be old versus new, so the the new commentaries have theadvantage of they've got cutting edge trends andthey also will be able to survey a lot of the old ones. You'll get more bankfor your buck, but then the newrn commentaries also might have beendistracted by a couple racting to a couple of centuries of material. That'sreally unhelpful, whereas say a reformation era. Commentary is dealingmore with the text itself, which is actually what you want to bepreaching. So what's your thought on new versus Old Yeah? Well, that hits onmy number one frustration with commentaries and you already alluded toit. Some of the commentaries I have I feel like fully a third of the bookcould be excised if we simply established the person whose name is onthe book wrote the book. Okay Paul wrote that yeah and the bookas we have it, is more or less the book that the author wrote so warm andsource source criticis. Yes, and all the other related types of criticis youspend so much on. Did the person really write it did itcome to us in this form all the different layers of the tradition andas a pastor on very rare occasion? Should you go into that material inmost pastors? Hopefully, every pastor in eventgeicalchurch is going to take those things for granted, not not because we haven'tdone our homework, but that's going to be a starting point so that evenHebrews even Hebrews, it doesn't really do you anything. I mean you have't n, alot of time speculating over who road Hebrews. Where does it get you? I mean?I always use this illustration in y in my preaching class about not preachingall of your issues from seminary that you know I was at Universarty FormShurch, very well educated church across the street from university. Myfirst series that I did there was on...

Aphesians and I just felt like man,these thes, a e academic people. I got to do something about the paulineauthorship of ephecians and you know what everyone's thinking there in thepews. Well, it says haul to the church, iniphesions all right,I'm tracking with you pastor, I'm buying that. So it's not that you mightnot say a word, but for most congregations, the BAS. You are notgoing to have to get into that and that's frustrating with commentariesand to your point, the older commentaries. When you get closer tothe reformation, you know Kalvin's not going to spend time on that. Mercifully,for most of us t there's an important place for those criticism. We need someacademics who are dealing with that, but most people leading Bible studiesand pastures Um a little bit of that goes a really long way. So I do, Idon't think I've bought. I haven't, bought a single, complete commentaryseries. I haven't chosen to build my library that way, but I go through eachtime I'm teaching or preaching on a book. I will look at Carson's book.TRIMPER LONGMAN has a companion volume for the Old Testament m bestcommentaries is an amazing website which compiles those reviews. It looksat lacaneers reviews, D, GS, desiring God's reviews. It sort of it has amathematical formula. Anyways I mean it is amazing. It will give you thatwebsite dozens and dozens of commentaries. It gives you a numberrating ore. You take that with a grain of Sault. It gives you where you canbuy em as it pastors devotional scholarly it's it's a wealth ofresources. Would you guess I bet you could guess of thousands ofcommentaries on their site, which currently has the highest ranking ahundred out of a hundred which give me which volume which author and volume yeah Dgmu Onromans? That's very high. No,it's going to be my guess, Iscarson on John Okay, there's another good gescarson on John, which is. Is I an amazing commentary because- and I just got done preaching throughJohn and definitely the most helpful commentary I mean Calvin- is- is alwaysup there too, but because Carson is pretty concise I mean for John, I meanit's. I have it right here. I don't know if it's five hundred pages or so-but I mean you, could it could be four times aslong Um? He gives to the point, he's a good writer. He brings out theologicalissues without being distracted by them. Oftentimes the e, the academic sort ofcommentaries that then tack on here's for homaletical points. I think, withall your respect, you're, not preaching sermons. The these. These are they justdon't work, so I appreciate Carson doesn't try to do that in a formulakeway, but there's always things there. So I have lots of Um series that I find helpful. That pillarcommentary series is invariably helpful. Peds, the White Nlu, the White Anglu onYeah Piti O'Brian, is another one get his stuff. EHO's got the Clautonsofphesions in that tats reing, the INNI C nt, the international commentaryseries and New Test Ment, the Old Testament. So the New Testament is kindof reddish pinkish hue and the the Old Testament is greenish blue. The formatof that is so good. You know they're they're somewhat. You know you have to use somediscernment depending on who wrote what volume, but I love the layout ascompared to the word Biblical commentary series which, U I teetedlast week, because one of the they looked like the socks that I waswearing. The Old Testament again is kind of turquoise and the New Testamentis green. There are some excellent excellent volumes in there and thenthere'se some that are less evangelical. My biggest complaint is the format is so difficult. It they're cramming waytoo many words on a page. It goes through. The format itself is good foryour sanctification. No, so I the format really does make a difference.The NIGTC Greek one that is also published by Erdmans and that's the onethat bl has the revelation commentary series in sort of a topish cover to it.With some purple accents I didn't know we were going to get fashion. Well, wehave to and then m well I'm going to mention just a couple more than we'llgo to justin the for preachers, the one that crossway does on preaching theword that our cint Hughs is the series editor really good. Now they tend sincethey're sermons, they're, they're, big...

...thick books, and so sometimes you knowit's hard to get through everything. But I used to pill rikens on exedus,which invariably very helpful. Had some good illustrations. Um Phil and Um RickPhillips have done one for a number of years, reformed expositors commentaryseries, that's also good the M for for people who are saying okay, I haven'tbeen to seminary. I don't know the Greek an Hebrew: what's a good but still substantive, lay levelcommentary series either the Tindale Ne Testament commentary series there'salso one for the Old Testament or the Bible speaks today that Stot used toedit m. those are very good t they're by competent scholars, but they're easyto use they get to the point. There are lots of other series that I can mentionit's hard to we're going to give Kleb a lot of work and good lucklinking tosome of these series, but Justin. We turn it over to you clean up what we'vemissed and we'd love, in particular W t. What what s? How do you feel is fromthe publisher side of things? Do we need more commentaries? Yeah? I think that we do and we needthe right kind of commentaries. I think you know you guys have been lamentingthe the more academic ones that try to cover every base, and I think, there'sa historical reason for that that evangelicals needed to show that theycould compete at that level of ideas that th the Orthodox position actuallywas tenable, and so I think, there's a place fhor that it just has a limitedplace for a working pastor, trying to feed his sheep each week. I think that if we can find the best commentators in the world whoalso know how to preach just different from saying writing, creaching orapplication commentary, but I think about people like Don Karson Don haspreached extensively through the Gospel John Tom Schriner would be another onehe would be. I think the top of my list right now in terms of commentators,because I never have to never gets distracting, never goes offon strange rabbit trails is always clear,has a worshipful sense about him, masterful of being concisose and being theologically oriented at the same time.But Tom has preached at his local Church through the book of revelationand then wrote the commentary for Crossway on revelation, and I thinkthat shows when somebody's preach through it and then comment on at thesame time, Um yeah a couple of other. My favoritecommentators would be frank, Teoman and we've mentioned Dugmu and I think JohnStot is always worth consulting ATA. Nobody can say it quite as concisely. Nobody sees how a text breaks outbeautifully into three parts. A A I L. I can't read stat before I do my sermonoutline 'cause. Once I read Stot, it does seem like he that that is theoutline. How Co er BA another outline, it's so clear, an I. It could be an oldtestament counterpart again in terms of the conciseness, I think, the longeryou're at this, the more you value, somebody who's able to say things in acompact way and say a lot versus you know. Anybody can take twenty fivepages to Expoud a tax, but can you do it in one paragraph like a a packer, astot or a kidner? Let me just put in a little plug, and I know that I'm biased,because I work for Crossway, but we are publishing a twelve volume, sadexpository esd commentary and I just read to Eric Ortland's commentary onEster. How many ortlands are there believe it or not, Yeah Five Different Ortlans, ah Ray GannyDan, Eric and Gavin? Are there others there's only one other, only the thedaughter Sister Yep, their sister, has not publicly a she idea of somethingcyeah a remarkable family. But I really really like that book. I mean it'sconcise. It doesn't get into all sorts of historical texual, critical stuff,but I think if you're preaching through the book, it would give you what youneed to know and then it has comments on preaching. So it doesn't try to do.Hey here are five things to mention in your sermon, but some orientation forpreachers in terms of redemitive history application. So I I thoughtit's really nicely done. The latest New Testament, one Um Bob Yarbo, does Romans Andin, selidas,first Crynthiensdean, Orlando Second Corinthians, Frank Teman does galations,so some Grat commenters. I think that's a really Nice Nich one where you couldactually own the whole set, because the whole Bible's done in twelve volumes orwith some of these you might try to own the whole set they just a lot ofcommentary. Sus aren't yet complete. Yeah a pillar hasn't been done now, international. I don't think hit'sbeen done so don Carston. We know you're listening, keep working on thosecommen yea to need you. We need you Don.

Just I'm glad you mention that I feellike that. crossway commentary series and again it's all black realhandsomely done rig just we think in our co, colors fashion, yeah fashion, Ithink it'se flawn under the radar. I I have to admit that I I think I have thevolumes that have been done, maybe not that most recent one and they're on myshelf and it looks very nice and I was spreaching through Daniel the springwinter, and I thought Oh there's Dan and I pull U and I forget who did? Itwas very good. It was very well done and I thought I have adm. I haven'tpaid much attention to this because it it is different. You know you get onevolume and it's got several different books in there, but listeners out there.That's a very justace right. It is a very good series to get with good,reliable, evangelical commentary and it Looks Really Nice on your shelf, whichleads me to a related question. Maybe a last one on commentaries. Do you guyshave we mentioned the ESV Study Bible? Do you have one volume commentariesagain it's hard to get the kind of depth that that you might need inpreaching through a book, but there are times that you just want to be able topull off one y. You just want to get one volume to say, giveme, a quickanswer to this question that I have or just make sure I'm not misreading thistext from Zekiel one volume commentaris that you find helpful. I I don't use many any more and we'veactually thought about doing them, but the Study Bible has kind of surplanted.I think the one volume commentaries, but back in the Dat- I I don't have itin front of me. So I don't know if it was the eight late eighties earlynineties ivp an a number of a nice reference et really like a Ivpethiologyof dictionary. Those at her ag there's a really grave Nebo, there's n one, anBible Commentary, one that is just nice to just get in their glands and I think another resource to know aboutis net Bible, which is its own translation, but they have extensive and it's free online. You can get aprint version as well, but extensive commentary about the Greek, the Hebrewbout, pexual varienta variations, I'm working on a sermon as we speak forthis Sunday and going in there and unparticularly tricky verse, an theGreek. It's helpful just to see, hear the five or six options, and at leastwhat not to say. That's where I find commentary sometimes helpful is notlooking for what should I say about this passage, but what are some thingswhere I'm not emphasizing work word in the English? That's not really. Theyare in the Greek or somebody who knows Greek a lot better than I do can helpme see various pitfalls and H, where I shouldn't be going instead of Russianecessariy. I still think Matthew. Henry is a great one volume commentary.It's in t e public doma ou get online, but to have the book on yourself I meanI've, there's often a a nice sentence or two or turn of a phrase. There arethings that you can use in a sermon and again just to make sure you're kind ofon track. If people don't know the history of that, you know th it used tobe in Puritan services. In addition to the preaching of the word, which mightrun an hour, they would consecutively read through the Bible, and you knowthey might read through a chapter or two at a time, and there would be ajust, very brief sort of orienting kind of comment to that passage, not thesermon. We would think it to be a sermon before the sermon today. But, ofcourse you have to remember, they didn't have small group Bible Studiesthat didn't have the abundance of resources that we have. So it's notthat we need to recreate what they did, but those were Matthew, Henry'sprefaratory comments, as they would read through large chunks of scripture.So I was meant to be digested by the congregation, but it wasn't meant to bea sermon on the text and I still find those to be helpful. Galin any otherones. We've missed kind of surprisand nobody's brought up the commentary onthe New Testament Lans of the old T. I was going to there Ar Rightin it savingsomething orover that is h from Carson and beal. Arethey the only two, the editor yeah? Okay, so that Um consistently beneficial? I cansay studying with with Dr Carson of the many things I benefited from there. Itwas certainly his emphasis on deliberate use of the netestmentwriters of the Old Testament that there is a method to what can appear to bemadness, and that commentary is absolutely golden for helping you tosee how the how 's has don would say how the whole Bible holds together. So that's a that's one that just bigshout out taall right. We got ten minutes left. We got a hard stopBecausem, my kids get done with their various after school activities and aswe already established, I'a dynamic,...

...wonderful father. So we do want to talkabout such an important topic. It's so big, but we'll limit ourselves ton. Tenminutes our friend and crossway acquisitions editor Samuel James, wrotea good, provocative and important peace over the weekend. If you're, not youknow acquainted with Samuel, he really should he's he's a good writer and he'svery thoughtful he's younger than all of us for shame, but the piece was called which enemy,Wich Doorstep Callon, give us your quick summary of the Pece and why youthink it's important you, you text it it to us and say you know. Yes,exclamation pointers. Y! U Know like this! Well, you know I'm working onmultiple different I've been talking with a friend Trevan,wax about his concept of multidirectional leadership thatleaders have to recognize threats coming I from multiple directions, asI've been talking about treven about this realized that my two thousand andfifteen book blind spots become in a crageous. Compassionate Commissionchurch is really similar to that. Recognizing multiple directions wherechurches and Christians can go wrong and recognize how those threats need tobe addressed. That's what Samuel's articleI think does is helppeople to understand and I'll. Just give you anexample of what this looks like. Okay, let's say that you're really worriedabout the trends in the academy in the media, in Um, in major cities and incorporations, especially in the West, including the United States, but theyyou're really worried about their obsessions with social justice and mthings along those lines: diversity, inclusion on and on and on. I want to say yes, I'm worried aboutthat as well, and I can see how college students and people working in thesefortune five hundred companies and any of us being subjected to this, whilewatching sports and on and on and on our politics. This is a major, Major,major factor. What I can't quite understand is whysomebody can't recognize that that is a threat. What a the same time. It isalso true that racism continues to be a major problem in this country or, likewe talkd about the beginning of this podcast, that sint inside of the church,the the moral character of our leaders is proving to be deficient. This iswhat Samuel get sad and the articles is to recognize that there aremedicultures things that all of us are dealing with and allthis have to havehave to confront. Then there are microcultures that could be ourneighborhood, our community, our particular church. It could be the casethat your particular church is really struggling with with racism. What thesame time somebody else's church does not struggle with that, but they'rereally worried being in a college town. For example, that their young peopleare being indoctrated into forms of critical theory that are reallyundermining their faith, I think we, we all need a really heavydose of recognizing that just in the United States, with three hundred andthirty million people and all kinds of different Meta and microcultures thatsome of us are going to be called to tackle different issues with differentlevels of urgency. I think if we recognize this with each other, itmight help us to collaborate instead of merely treating each other's issues asif they don't matter compared to ours. It's possible- and I think Samuel helpsus to see this, it's possible that there are many problems that are urgentand that different people will be called to them at different levels ofurgency, depending on their place and their station. That's my basic summaryJustin is that accurate of your colleagues fo, you know Aad yourperspective to it yeah I think that's an Accurat,summarin and maybe itrade two quick codes and then turn it back to Kevin tohow he wants Tus to kind of rap it up or respond, but EAN. He says ntherethat two things can be true at the same time, but in different places andbecause of different things at such an obvious statement, it seemslike it should hardly need to be written, but it's really an importantpoint. He points out that we tend to confusewhat is most depicted with what is most real and then a third thing struck myeye, a media age uppens many things, but one of its first is place. If T Vand radio dislodge political awareness from its local roots, andbiased ittoward the nation, the Internet burned the route entirely and the world shapedby the Internet. All eyes are trained OP. What is national and globalnarratives are useful to the degree that they painted broad strokes andgive a sense of omnapresent problems. So I think both of those are importantsides of we have geographical divides. We talk about national persus local,but sometimes we just want to say only...

...this part of it's true, and this partisn't when both things can be true. At the same time, just in different placesin in different ways, I should say Kevin that going back to last week'sconversation, I think that gives people a sense for how we approach the issuewith Grace Community Church and Jonmacarthurs um that there aremultiple things can be true. You could personally disagree with the Church'sdecision. You could personally advocate for Christian freedom, the consciencewhich are just to make different decisions, and you could agree thatthis is a particular example of government, overreach and you're reallyconcerned about where this trend is going. We just really need tounderstand that those things can all be true at the same time, and it's and it's important for us,then this sounds so cliche hae to say itthis way, but to listen, and I mean not in a metaway I mean what we've peoplewouldn't know, thice about what we've been doing with some of our friends onemails and things. It's helpful to say: Okay, tell me: What do you see becausethings that can seem to be mythical or blown out? A proportion inone place candy very real concerns, so one person may say: Are there re, I mean? Are there reallyneoconfederates running around? Are there really confederate sympathizers?Are there really people um with the lost cause, mythology, front and center?Is that really happening, and it may not be really happening in what onePERSOS hes and it may really be happening and be a big deal somewhereelse? And conversely, I see this is where I think we 'm interrupting myself. We, we all tend to have some thingsthat we that we think everybody knows that that's wrong, and so, if you, if you feel likeeverybody knows that racism is wrong or everybody knows thatlooting is wrong. Nobody's really for that. Well, not everybody does know thosethings, and so it's not always that were we're blind to the things we mightnot, because we don't care about them. We might be blind to them, because weassume that everybody already thinks a certain reasonable way about themwhen in fact, that's not the case, so we might not give attention. I've triedto be. You know very forthright about this. In some of my writing, just tohopefully, maybe set an example of- let's just be honest with ourselves. Iknow by my you know, having grown up in a public school having grown up in thereformed church in America having very often been the right most tent pegin places that I've been. I know that my spidy sense is more atuned todepartures on the left, so I need to be reminded. It is possible, and- and Iyou know- Learne this at various times in patoral ministry- that there is asort of default position which is unhealthy among conservatives, whichsays if there is a more conservative position on something, because I knowthat liberalism is bad. If there is a more conservative position, I can findthat is the safest place to be, and no not always, and sometimes what mayseem to you to be conservative. Actually isn't it's just something elsethat you know owns the libs. So all of this to say, Samuel's article is animportant piece of common sense, but it's more than that. It's it's anecessary reminder. When we talk about the most contentious issues of our day,whether it'ssexgender race esnicity, that even among people where we couldall sign the same doctrinal statement on these things, we just need to haveour eyes open and try to learn from one another and realize what you're seeingmay not be what everyone else is seeing and there may be legitimacy to thosecritiques. We are at our hard stop and hopefullyyou have finished mowing your lawn or gone on your perambulation for the day,your daily constitution or the dishes or the dog, or what have you because weare done and we look forward to seein you next week. Thank you just in thankyou Collin and again. If you can h subscribe on one of one of the manyplatforms, that's helpful and leave a review if it's a good review, if it's abad review, then Y, U Know I just forget that you, you even listen to usat all, but if you like it, that does help us out. So thank you very much andwe look forward to see yo next weak, Lord willing and until then Gor. If Igot enjoyn forever and read a good book.

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