Life and Books and Everything
Life and Books and Everything

Episode 6 · 1 year ago

Season 1: Episode 5 - Conspiracy Theories, Parallels Between COVID-19 and 2004, Expertise and Authority, and Favorite Biographies

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Originally released on May 20th, 2020, Kevin DeYoung, Collin Hansen, and Justin Taylor cover the following in the 5th episode of 'Life and Books and Everything': an airing of gratitude, conspiracy theories, parallels between COVID-19 and 2004, expertise and authority, our favorite biographies, and which biographies we’d like to write.

This is life and books and everythinghosted by Kevendiyan Justin Taylor in colinhansongreetings and salutationsare fair listeners, welcome to life and books and everything lad to bejoined. With my good friends, Justan Taylor and Collin Hanson we're going tojump right in and H, I'm sure everyone is benlistening to the podcast, seriallyand so they're caught up, and they may recall that last week we began ratheruplifting fashion with some airing of grievances. Pet peeves and I didn'tgive Justin and Callin ample time to prepare we'll have to revisit that.Perhaps that can be a a you know. We can return to that asjust lookforward to feature of the program, an anniversary episode someday, yeah sort of best of greatest hits, but I thought we would do in the opposite direction and, let'scall it the erring of gratitude. We did grievances, let's do gratitude and justto to set the parameters not looking for anything to other worldly there's. Certainly, ifwe were really you know, talking about the things were most grateful for we'dtalk about H, teological concepts in the Lord, andwhat's that Jesus were Gwe, would we would want to say that so we're notmaking light of any of those things our family and salvation? But I wantto godown to some smaller things, so sort of the opposite of peppeeves. What aresome things? Small but big to you? It could be h food. It could be little blessings inlife that you're realizing you missed now that we've been some parts of thecountry and lockdown still give me your list of the Eiring of Colin handsongratitude. You don't have to start with me and just and we'll just take that asa giver. Well, I know you guys will be with me on this one fat guy touchdowns,how amazing or fat night touchdowns. Oh, I hope we can see those again soonerthan later, yes and factnied celebrations one face core: they tendto go hand in hand, e Atthright onit that guy's celebration ther's justsomething like watching that tiny little football in that big man n their amiballs. If, if the camera canget in Zoomin on their ievals in there proaching, then on th, they all havethat, like Mike singletary, look the crazy eyes you going to ehellsomeone or I'm going to score th right. Did you ever go touchpown, Colin inyour high school? No S, no ceer an opensive, winemen! Well, Andy FensovLine Mamam! I ing to two offensive linemen. Here I was tighet ind, so itwas kind of moreof a receiver. You are the Garange of your era. Nodoubt a one play that they would do for me for a two point: Converson it wascalled Tigt end dump and I' just literally go out like two yards andcatch it. I believe it may be apply named yeah. I M I played offine center andthen defensive tackle at all of a hundred and ninety five pounds, or sonine Mene football and South Dakota. So no I didn't I mean there was like apractice once where I caught one before they switched me to the Acalim dralingthis. But out of curiosity, did you ever get hit in the head, whilepracticing fall with anything other than a football or Helmut? No, I can't think of anything. Why doyou ask you told me one time the got hit by stock of corn, flag or well?What I was telling you about. He doesn't remember that, just when you're playing in the cornfieldsof South Dakota, the wind is sweeping down that plane and in the playoffsit's just corn. Stalks are flying everywhere. It's like negnative,whatever ten degrees with a forty mile, an hour wind and all the corner hasbeen combined, so you get the corn stolks flying everywhere. So, yes, youare referring to the last game of my sophomore year, at which point we hadcornns got the corn been detassled dthat's. One of the great regrets of mylife Kevin- I never got to do tassle corn, but I get back to gratitude.Remember don't regret that we're talking about Gradin, K Ey, give us theLISTON. I love peaches. I mean that is a southern thing that it is hard to. Imean Ando, there's peacheons everywhere you can get them, but it's Kindof likethey'd, say: There's pineapple and you're thinking well, yeah. I mean Igrew up with that from the can and everything like. No, no, no! You everhad pineapple in Hawaii. THAT'S THE R...

...okay! Well, that's like peaches inAlabama and Georgia. So love that we're in that peach season now as well- andthis is a little bit more serious, but it's relevant to the podcast books, mygoodness, the amount of books, the accessibility of books, historic andpresent, the making of books of which I'm grateful there. I no end the thecost of them and the ability to be able to access them acess them. I mean I. Iknow that I mean I think, back to the little bookstore in the town of fivethousand year, where I grew up in South Dakota, and I I regret that that placeclosed like fifteen years ago, but then I think my whole world was pretty muchlimitd Id to what I could find in the library, the Carnegie Library there andthen also at that little bookstore. But now I get whatever book I want shippedfor a pretty reasonable cost. In most cases, almost immediately to my house.How amazing is tat so a lot of reasons for gratitudes, okay, I I have a longerlist and then we'll get to justin and once I started making this, I saw somethemes that have to do with either sports or the very short list of foods that I caneat or am willing to eat. As people may know, I've been very picky selective H, you know, maybe a disorder probablyshould get a scholarship or something, but then I was diagnosed with CELIAC.So now I have an excuse for all sorts of things that I can't eat. So let letme give you my list. Okay, I I like I really like mountain dew. Isn't thathorrible straight up mountain dew straight up, Mountain de and and Inever really had pop as we call it Soda Downheryeah? They don't call herepop, I didn't Ha and then I think when I got Clak, I started craving emptycalories and mountain dew does the trick for empty galleries. So in fact Ihave a little okay. This I moving into my earing of grievances when you'rewith people in a light company- and you can have any any pastor any author, anyspeaker can get a diet, coke and, of course, he' very civilized. You say Ima'am. Do you have a mountain dew and it's o shock and Gofal like I just camein there on my skateboard and then when they sall only coke products, and I askfor a mellow yellow. Then it's just bonkers Kevin. This happened to me. Last week Ihad a friend come over. I cracked open a mellow, yellow zero and he said isthat a mellow yellow that you're drinking and I said only the greatestdrink ever invented. Okay, I was I was. I was supposed to have been trulyembarrassed about this, but I'm saying that Yo, Bon e, all dozens of listeners,so lea bought some Generic Mountain de the other day from IV, and it was a diet, Mountain Holler Soif. You really want to feel like aHillbilly crack, O anut MTAIN Outa Holler. Where isn't nobody cool, though,in public like driving on the road with a big gulp of Metto, like hat t, notyour guy who's on the fast track, arter, F, the law firm. Is it not onthe conference circuit? What well little know n fact, there'sthere's a man in our church who used to work for an AD agency, and he tells methat he came up with the name Mellow Yello H, his boss said w. What whatshould we call this and he said well, it's mellow, it's yellow, I, or atleast he confirmed it to his boss- that it was a good name. I can neitherconfirm her to no, I have more UM fruity pebbles are glut and free. Thatis a great blessing to me in life. Lucky charms are glut and free h. Whatdo they have in them? Just sugar? I mean Wawit' Rice, worse yeah, I meanyeah. Frey pebbles are rice where you find where they grow. Colorful Rice. I am grateful. The short term parkingat the Charlotte airport is like five dollars more than the long term parking,so I just park there and and there's spaces, and I just walk right off.Someone gave me that great tip just park, even if you're gone for five dayspark of the short term parking cost you just a few bucks, more all rigt. I lovepeople, don't knows, B T I love blue grass. I don't play that Bi, likebluegrass music, don't think yeah. I like mowing my lawn straight lines. Order H. If I don'thave you know if I need a break on a Saturday afternoon, I like grape juice.In fact, when I go to breakfast place, I'm just chagrin. I think grape juiceshould be second or third juice and it's usually you get down five sixjuices, and I don't know how many times I say: Do you have a greape juice, umgrape fruit d? Do I look like I'm eighty years old?No, I don't want great fruit juice. I...

...want grape jes, but no they don't. Theydon't carry grape juice. Okay. Last one and I'm I'm sad that we're not going tohave this this summer h, not just the Olympics, that's obvious, but my family.For several years ha we watch American inja warrior and it's a good thing for the wholefamily to watch and we've been watching this past week, they've replaying onthe Olympic channel, the twenty seventeen and twueand and nineteentrack and field world championships, and that, let me tell you that has beenjust as good the second time around. So I'm thankful anytime. I can watch atrack meat on TV. Just in what are you thankful for thankful for Glutin Yeah? I bet you areit does make the world go round. Sorry, Pizza Ranch would be high or isyes sorry given these are not very encouraging? Are you actually didn't tell us like comeup with funny gratitude things? So all of mine are like good and all Yourekindess of strangers, feer oeand, all oi still have not read it. T H, yeah N th, the lighter side, theNebraska Corn Hesgers. I hope that we could have college football. This fall,but it is truly something I enjoy and h. There are roots to it beyond just kindof sports idolatry of going back to memories. With my dad going to gamesand watching the nineties when we used to winnational championships, just like the Bullswood, every mhm, you were yeurswrds. We were St boiled, yea growing up Lake Yeah, the Bulls win, the NebraskaCorn hiskers win, but it even goes back to my my grandfather, so there's just aspecial place in my heart. That comes Saturday mornings in th Saturdayafternoon, Saturday evenings in the fall. It's a something to look forwardto. I do love pizza, I don't like Mountain de, but I like diet, Motain du Yeah. ISE, too, are very different. Iuse to like Mountain Du. I can't I can't handle it anymore. DIHT Myde,don't like, but again tip to the wise Melo, Yellow Melio Zero, both goodColin. You know a lot about melay, yellow and Mountaino. How many insights does this guy have iwasi was a classic Gethican momentthere, but just the the genuine thing of h. You know I'm grateful for sleep. I I'veknown people who cannot get a good night of sleep or or struggle withinsomnia and ninety eight percent of the time I'm going to sleep before Iwant to go to sleep, I'm yfalling asleep. I stay asleep other than infront of her children wakes us up, but Um, just the joy of of family that God has given each of us wives, D andchildren. That is a great blessing. I don't Pik for granted grateful for new morning mercies. Again,I'm going more serious than you guys, y thanks for really moving us. I hngerection yea, we ACKTO IF I hadn't that guy touched own, that's what I had thatwas number one on your list two morning. MERCIES M Hash, Tad, crosswaybest,celler, tr. Think YOUEA ESPONSOR, yes m! No, I was thinking about this the otherday. Just that I mean gid could have very easily created it so that we don'tsleep right. We just you know the sun doesn't go down and we maybe we only live fifty years, but we ore twice isproductive and put in ninety hourwork weeks, but there's something about therhythm of every day, no matter how much you mess up and you fail and UH feel unproductive it S. it's the suncomes up and there are new mercies from the Lord in the morning, and I'm reallygrateful for that especially grateful in this kind of pandemic season foremployment. Um Heart really goes out for those who are underemployed orunemployed. Everybody on Tuter talks about working from home and Um. Youknow if you're in the trades you're not working from home um if we're knockdownand not just to be employed but to work at a place like crossway, where Ireally believe in what we're doing and and love the sort of books we'reproducing so and t yet to to pick you back in Collins. Books are just such agreat gift. Um itit really struck me reading AlstromGrasp Bagraphy of JI packer in nineteen forty five, virtually no puritan booksare inprint like yeah you're interested in Gono and you're interested in Baxter.You want to get puny and stuff like too bad unless you go to Oxford Universitylibrary, you're not going to be reading purent an books and if Youare you'regoing to be reading them in these big dusty tomes but D, they have all ofthat wisdom. Now just available Hor fingertips, Um, there's a lot to begrateful for andmily, Yellow D. You've prompted me to maybe saysomething slightly more atfying. That's...

...just to think of how easily that the things that I might want, TaHarumph about or feel stressed about, are the very things that almost anyone in the world would youknow trade places W or so many people I mean. Oh, I I my house has a mass and II got TA clean a house. Well, I have a house and there's a lot of things inthe house which OIT needs to be clean or all these kids need to be put to bedand fed and bades. Well, you have a house full of children. You've beengiven that gift you feel overwhelmed, stressed at work. You have a job you'rebusy. You have lots of things to do and I know it's I'm sure I've been insensitive at timesin rattling through struggles and they're real struggles attimes and and not thinking of how many people might be listening and think wow.I I trade some of my blessings for some of your problems. So thank you, Justin for being morespiritual than my question aloud. Let's we didn't talk so much last timeand we don't have to spend a lot of time, but just as states, one by one and sometimesregioned, by region, move out of the stay at home orders and we continued tosee. Although the the number of death has decreased, yetit's s largely a plateau and so that the total number is still increasingand it does seem like, as we now move outof the we're all together in this too we're all apart in this meaning we'vefallen into or maybe not fallen, we've decided to move into our familiarpostures. It's almost like as a country ar coping mechanism with all theunknown. What we know how to do is form very regimented sides and S. Iwas reading one person right in the past week. The culture war is is necessary attimes, but there comes a point where it's almost like you. Unless you'redoing culture war stuff, you don't know what to do with yourself and with you,R, your life, you and I, the three of us were- were talking about that H. Little back of the envelope shark that somebody put out on twitter.That shows things were bad now, they're worse, and if you do whatI say, they all get better. If you don't do what I say, everythingcontinues to get worse and that's sort of what my tinerfeet looks at times. So I don't know if I want to ask you guysif you venture any predictions, because whatever predictions we might makeabout the coming weeks and months or years will probably prove to beinaccurate, but Camin, perhaps I'll start with you W whi. Is it sodifficult to really know what's happening? We have the smartest peoplein the world looking at this trying to solve it, trying to give an analysis ofit, and why is it so difficult to really know what's happening and whatto do? And yet why are we still so Bron to want to make very boldpronouncements about it? Itseems, like as I continue to getcloser to forty years old, I find more and more d more occasions to realizehow old IAM and because I cau Yo froorty it's OITEIT's falling apart.Well, I remember Ed it's not just that I'll have a a quote from Seinfeld orfrom Anchorman, or something like that that just you know somebody has no clueabout, but it's it's bigger events that formour mental architecture to be able to think through situations like this, andso everybody has the big category in their mind, even if they were pretty young at thetime they have a pretty big category for nine eleven in their mind, and Ithink that's created a lot of discouragement for people because theythink well Gosh. I don't see the unity that Iremember from nine eleven. I don't see the the purpose. I don't see therecovery, I don't see the patriotism, I don't see any of that and I I agree. Ithink th at's that's been frustrating. It's been discouraging. I was talkingwith our our staff of the Gosipel coalition today and was mentioning tothem that of all the things we needed in this world. It did not include a lot more time athome by ourselves in front of our computers on social media. Yet, of course, that's exactly what'shappened so part of it's just. This is one of the first major crises thatwe've dealt with this. I reason my social media h'as been such a majortheme on this podcast, but people have...

...that category of disappointment fromnine eleven, but I'm telling you guys- I don't know what you guys think ofthis, but I think this is more. This feels to memore like two thousand and four and two thousand and four was apresidential election year. Of course, as we're dealing with right now, nineeleven was right after a very contentious presidential election. UThrough Florida for to recount and everything like that, but it was earlyon in President Bush's tenure and he was going to be there for another threeyears and Um to O, for though presidential election and you started to have, there was alot of unity early on with the Iraq war, not universal unity by any means. Butof course you famously had people like you know: Senator Byden, SenatorClinton, hovoted to authorize the Iraq invasion, and so there was a lot of youknow onunity there, especially around the presentation. Remember the famouspresentation at the United Nations about the weapons of mass destruction,Thenas, two thousand and four approached the war was not necessarilygoing Elenot, quite as well as everybody hoped it was going to go.They didn't quite welcome. The American troops, like Dick Cheney, had said thatthey would Um. There was still a lot of violence, and then there was the searchfor weapons of mass destruction. Where were they? That was the reason we didthis. That's the reason with the United Nations, that was the authorizationfrom the from t from Congress. All that kind of stuff- and you had this fork inthe road moment of either- were going to discover these weapons of massdestruction and then perhaps it'll be a justified decision.'cause everybody agreed of couse t at Saddam Hussein was a bad guy and thatthe world would be better off without him that wasn't the issue, then theother option was maybe we don't ever find these lepons of mass destructionand it turns out it was a horrible decision and we never would have donethis before, but you you had this kind of fork in the road, and so what I feellike right now is that there was a lot of unity early on in the Corono virusof we've got a lockdown. I wasn't let o talk of necessarily. What's the rebilegoing to look like. What's the reopan going to look like just like with Iraqit, there was no discussion about okay. What government replaces Sadamhussain nthe BATHIST REGIME? So there was o a discussing discussion about that andthen you get into it and y like okay, it's going and going what's that quitegoing as we expected it to it still bad, but it's very confusing and I feel likewe're waiting now on a smoking gun or the lack of asmoking gun to say was that an overreaction should we havenot done that or yeah? Actually it was. It was horrible and and yeah we had totake these drastic measures, and so that's what it feels like to me. That'swhy I don't feel like the unity of nine eleven. Is there B'cause? I don't thinkit's an alogous. I think it's more analogous to the two thousand and foursituation and we're in a waiting process who's going to turn out to beright. N. What does it mean? What do you got to think about that? He mighttotally off Justin sure sure you are totally off. I I think one of the differences than Ithink it is enlightning to think back to two thousand and four, and I maytake in a little bit of a different direction but m one of the things that's differentabout this is that it's there's no way to falsify whatever you believe. So, ifyou think like we're going to have a million deaths, unless we do lockdown,like your view, is essentially unfalsifiable, because you can neverrun like an experiment where you have a control group wherewith, the Iraqiinvasion, the invadion of Iraq, you had something like either Thare are weaponsof mass destruction are there are not, and therefore eitheryou were correct interms of your justification or you weren't. But this is a situation where,like essentially, you can't be proven wrong,because you can just always point back to what if we had done what I thoughtwe should have done, then h. This terrible outcome wouldn't have happened. When you talk about two thousand andfour for me, I think back to my own awareness that I don't have all of theanswers. I don't have all of the facts, but based upon what I know now, am Ijustified in believing this. I really did wrestle with that question because I think back then I blogged more aboutpolitics and may have made my no. My views, knownand people would push back Iwas thinking. I could be wrong, but I thinklooking back based upon what I know at new at the time, based on the evidenceavaiable to me, I do think it was a warranted decision to support theinvasion, even though in retrospect you look back, you see how facts havechanged and you might change your mind but um like. I don't think that GeorgeBush lied. I think he was incorrect, so there I think there are someparallels in terms of public and Pestomology, and what do we have accessto? And we talked about this I think in thefirst episode. None of us are experts and even if you have studied...

...infectous disease, your entire lifeyou're still not an expert on all sorts of other things related to this. So I Ithink that's one of the things that makes this so tricky. It's tempting tosay just trust the scientists, but science can tell you what an enzyme is.It can give you some results of studies, but there's all sorts of other factorsthat play here like wisdom, issues and social issues and predictive issuesthat even the experts don't really have a acorner on all the different aspects of the debate, and then you throw in thepartisanship. I mean people who just deeply deeply want president trump tofail and others who deeply want him to always be right about everything, throwthat into the mix. And it's really a difficult thing. I think,to sort through. What's true and what's false and what's wise and what's onwiseand look Anotr, another example: Justin just that's a difference and then coven yyou can jump in here is that in in two thousand and four other than maybe howyou might vote in the presidential election. It didn't matter what yourview of the Iraq war was er weapons of mass destruction. It wasn'tanactionable point unless you were going to sign up for the military andyou were going to join okay, that was a minority of people who were in thatposition and most people's partisan views were already formed, and so theyweren't in Tostoe F making those decisions in this situation, every single family, even husbands andwives, disagreeing about what to do. Every single church, every single city,every business, every state everybody has to make a decision on wha on theinformation that's available to them. No wonder it's so contentious and youhad said h earlier, calling that it, it does seem to be shaping up to a awinter. Take all and it's just human nature, and it'syou know part of the problem of our politics as well. Is We we don't allow other people to changeand we certainly don't allow our own minds to be changed, and so, once you are on record in a strong wayfor one outcome, think we talked about this an earlier potcass in a perverseway. You, you start rooting for unemployment togo up or death doles to go up or H. Somebody to be proven wrong in a waythat's catastrophic, and yet it makes your side seem right, and so it does isseem like. Although we know that whatever happens,you know people will be able to spend it whatever, which way they want that.If you would have done what I said, this bad thing wouldn't have happened,it does feel like we are setting ourselves up for a winter take all, andespecially in a in an election year. That's just going to be ramped up evenmore. I want to take it in in a related direction and that's to think about the the rolethat authority and trust for authorities play, and this there's beena lot in the past couple of months, in particular about conspiracy theories, and you know one person's conspiracy.Theory is another person's. You know speaking truth to power. That's that's!What's difficult about conspiracy theories H, there was a long article inthe Atlantic was it over the weekend about q anon. You know this anonymous sourceand some of these H, I'm just to say, fever, swamps of online communities that gets mixed inwith a sort of Super Pinocal Stole EvangelicalChristianity. At times it was. It was bizarre and frightening, and I admit Iit was all of that was new to me. What's not new to me or is the pensionthat we have for believing conspiracies, but I it's a hard conversation and wantyou guys to jump in because h three of us could easily talk about.You Know Wha wit. Why do people believe conspiracy theories about whatever itis? You Know Bill Gates, trying to form a one worldgovernment and make a billion dollars off of vaccines, and yet the fact ofthe matter is, you know history. You know at times you K, ow. Our governmentwas doing shady things, so some of the examples which seem- and I would say, R, really silly. What makes them so hard to disproveagain to your point: Justin, is they they really th? Almost the wilder theaccusation, the harder it is to falsify and h. You know was readingsomeone who, who made this point, I we're gonna. I don't want to talk aboutvaccines, but just use that as a as a test case. Any of US- and I think,alister robbers made this point Um that any of us ave you get about. Youknow two articles into the vaccine debate it's beyond the head of ninetynine percent of us. We don't really...

...know the Science, so you'R you're, trusting and authority,and it's not so much that people believe in different things, differenttheories because they don't trust thetories, they trust differentauthorities. So, if you, you know four years ago,we're a big follower of GIN hatacer and she said I really looked into the issueof homosexuality and she changed her mind. I'm going to change her mind, we can say: Have you read all of these EvangelicalBiblical scholars? Well, no, and we might l lament that they're, notlistening to authorities but actually they're listening to a differentauthority, and in that case they're believing that Um, you know a homerenovation. Blagger has the authority that they're looking for so it becomesvery difficult because at the end of the day, to use the tired, Cliche umthe reason we don't believe certain conspiracy theories is at least in some measure, because wetrust that mainstream science has something reliable to say, or we know,people who know people in certain positions and we aren't inclined tobelieve the Bena bizarre scenarios that are out there. What what do you guyssay to people and l a D, Let's, let's not think of those with ill motives whoare looking to harm people or just eager for strange theorye. Let's talkabout people that are genuinely reading things online or hearing thingsfrom their friends or finding some pastor out there who says something andwithout any ill motives. They believe one of these conspiracy theories. Whatwhat do we say to mitigate against this very real danger? I think it is a pastoral issue and Ithink that it's probably o only going to increase in the years ahead. H. Ithink you guys are on the same page as me and thinking is things aren't goingback? The genie's not going back in the bottle and things are not gon t goingto easier just there 'r, so many dynamics that tend towards this andkeving. You alluded to the Quanon article in the Atlantic and I wouldjust for any listener out there who hasn't read it. It's worth, googling itand reading it its really long, but it is something probably that we shouldknow about. It happened to be just before I read the article that' one ofmy wife's friends sent a message. Injust said I've got a close friend WHO's really into Cuanon,and I don't know what to say nothing that I say seems to make any differenceand doesn't resonate. So you have any resources on this. So it's going to getworse, I think Um. I think the most striking thing to mein that article is the line where the reporter asked the woman. What evidencedo you have that this is true and her response was what evidence do you havethat? It's not true, and I mean that's a very frightening mindset andproposition, and I think it can lead t just downright cultish thinking, but II think evidence is a significant thing to get back to your question. Kevin ofso what do you do? How do you work through issues? There's no clear cut,easy answer, but I think to ask what is the evidence and is it publiclyverifiable evidence Um? I don't think that by an large we are great atthinking. Logically, spotting fallacies, Keven Youve, probably done more readingthan the two of us on not only logical fallacies butfallacies in terms of numbers and statistics. That's a significant area that I wouldencourage Christians to bone up on your logic, bone up on a statisticalmistakes and inferences that people can make. So if, if things seem sketchy, ifthings are putting two and two together, if it feels like there's a lot of guesswork, I think we should all just be aware that with a well produced documentary orpresentation, you could pretty much convince most people that any bizarrething is plausible. So, just to go into things not being wooed and owd bypresentation by Um high level vocabulary, the citing of experts. Weneed to look for evidence. We need to think through things logically,elsethey need to ask okay this. This person maybe has a PhD from UCLA. Whatother things do they believe? What are the things? Do they say? What are whatare some of their other claims? I think that Christians should be able to sniffout truth, and there may be things where say I don't know how to answerthat or that's a good question. I'd have to look into it more, but we don'twant to be Gllibal a naive there's.

Nothing O virtuous about that, so leastwould be a girting point and that's really good, and I wonder if it'shelpful to just realize that some of the basic contours of some conspiracytheories are recycled from generation to generation and the the culprits just get swapped out.So you know a basic story line. Is there is a small group of peoplesomewhere who are all in Kahoots to overthrow and they're really pullingall of the strings and calling all the shots behind the scenes? And it's thissmall group of so you know in an earlier century it that would have beenthe Jews or the calls of the elder esion, that's right or it could havebord the Illuminati or from the simpsons the stone cutters which keepmake Steve Guttenberg a star, or now it's the the billionaires or aclass of a you, know, national, not nationalist,but globalists and it's the same sort of metan narrative as it were. There's asmall group of people there out to get us and again you, because by definition these are groupsworking in clandestin. Whatever you say is just further proof that they'reprobably doing it 'cause, you don't see it. You don't know it. Of course,there's not evidence to it and you would. You would hope thatChristians would be able to at least sniff that out. We believe intotal depravity, so we believe yeah people are capable of really bad rottenthings, but I also instinctively find it very hard to believe that in doingthose bad rotten things, they are invariably a group of supergeniuses whokeep it cloaked from ages to ages H, which have accrued godlike powers to manipulatepeople on the globe Callin. What do you say as we think about conspiracytheories in the church? Go ahead? U What were you going to say well, Y, just to jump in really quickly'cause? I Know Collins got a lot of thoughts and they re going to be muchbetter thoughts than I have, but w what you sank. Kevin just reminds me of Ithink, a really crucial point that a lot of people try to buttress conspiracy theories bydefending the fact that conspiracies have existed in human history, which isnot a good refutation of them. Of course, there are conspiracies, there'scriminal, conspiracies conspiracyes happend, all the time. Watergate was aconspiracy. So when we speak against conspiracy theories, it's not denyingthat people have conspired together to do things, it's more along the lines ofwhat you are saying that it's, this H, multi generational, multinationalsecret thing that there's there's no evidence and everybody somehow issuccessfully keeping this as a lie until a utubar discovered putting anumber of things together and and broke the case open, that's more. The CONOTAS,I think theory go ahead kind. Sorry now Joe Carter had really good, really goodarticle on this topic for the Gospel Coalition and what stood out to me inthat article was how he discussed the issue ofslander as it relates to these conspiracy theories, and so just- andyou had mentioned that you- you can't verify this information was a major problem for Christians tobe sharing information about other people that they do not know to be true, just on the presumption that it couldbe true because of some sort of some sort of grudge against that person.That's actually a category of Sin, that's a serious thing, but I guesswhere would we be in social media? If there wasn't? This sin of slander: Whatwould we talk about and SOCIA media? So that's one one thing that stood outthere from from Joe Another is that the nine eleven attacks, which must beclear? This is not like the right has a market corner down this kind of stuff.I mean look what happened with nine eleven and all the conspiracies thatcame from the left in the United States and that's what took me out toWashington DC. Originally, I was going to be working on Homeland Security Committee that had just been create upworking for the House Republican conference instead and congressman JCWatts, but one of the things I walked away from it was a really valuablelesson. Working in Washington DC was, if you ever have to choose betweenconspiracy and competence or sp conspiracy and just sort of likeincompetence, I should say choosin competent's rightthese are just theseare normal people, and I would say that whether or not your your conspiracy isabout Washington DC or if you'r conspiracy is about the gosipelcoalition. I...

...trust me any competence, Chos in carper answerthat would be. I will dgladly help. You with that one choose incompetence onthat, one so that s that's one issue b, t then the last thing I just wonder if I try to, I want to speak into areasthat I have some measure of Expertese in and an tryig not to you know, tocontribute those problems. One of my areas that I do understand pretty wellis media dynamics and think about this. If you have a talk, show for four hoursevery single day, do you think people are more likely to listen? If you a sayall right, well, Tay, the experts are telling us to do X. I don't I'm not an expert in thesethings, I'm an entertainer. I just speak well on the radio, so I think youshould do what the experts tell you to do. 'cause generally, you know, I think,that's that's, who I trust him or the alternative being spent four ofthe day. Saying forget those experts I'll tell you what's really going onhere, because I know how this really works and you can have the insideinformation. If you just listen to me, I don't know if anybody's ever read thenovel. The plot against America by Philip Roth HBO has done a series on it,and that is a major role. Actually, you can't quite tell if it's sympathetic ornot, but there's a major role being played by a talk, show host in therewho's exposing a radio host whoas, exposing this plot against America inthere, and you just understand people we need. We need to be clear about theincentives that media have to be able to promulgate this and to sell it. ToUS last point: is that then, what do you do? Okay, W so are you left just helpless?Well, here's what I do and you guys think of this, but this is the best Ican come up with. I try to find people who have incentives at cross purposesfrom each other. I'm TNAT Saing, just like triangulate two different peoplethink about individuals who have cross purposes in inside themselves, there'sno clear incentive one way or another: here's what I've come up with and I'mgoing to connect it back to my our favorite things. College footballwriters I'Mexplainin. What I mean you guys may have seen and you've probablytracked this before listeners have as well. Sports media has gotten really liberalin the Lanei into fifteen years. It's such a strange phenomena. They used tobe such a conservative field, it's totally flipped now, but if we don't have college football,I we don't have the NFLF. We don't get some sports real soon. All of these folks are going to getlaid off. You're not going to have a sport sock radio station anymore. Theathletic website's going to go under es PN's, going to continue to have majorproblems. They've already done the last dance documentary now. What are theygoing to do is just going to be cornhole for the whole summer. A Heynget M J to do some corn hole exactly then we would have it so I'm looking atLraacornhole, then he can- and I I I personally yeah told me- Icouldn't be the best in the world at that. I laughed at him, so cow footballwriters, they're, very liberal generally, which inclines them towardbelieving sort of the experts and lock down everything. But they lose theirjobs. If that happens also think about this c college campuses, it's a CR,wonderful cross purpose. They need sports to be solvent, they needstudents to be solvent, but at the same time they don't want to get in trouble. So you can trust that at some levelthey have every interest in getting things back up and running as soon aspossible, but at the same time, instinctively they're a little bitresistant to do that. So I just find. Generally, I pay attention to what those folks aresaying, because they're trying to balance those things, 'cause they'reworking at cross purposes, Fotar, they don't have an incentive to lie to you.I got to tell you guys a lot of people have an incentive to lie to you. Yeah.Let me just give two quick thoughts: Ond, what we might be able to do, oneas a pastor, very practically teach yeur people at some point. I say this: If you share my theologicalgrit, I guess teach your people how to appropriately read revelation DanielApocalyptic literature. You don't have to be an Amail like I am you know, but so many people. This gets grafted on toa very bad herminudic of apocalyptic literature that th six six, six don'thave anything to do with the Roman Empire. Of course, seven hills notthent do with RMAN empire the mark of the beast is you know a code, something that's goingto be implanted. We need to help our people read those texts as th in a waythat would have made sense to a first century Jewish audience, familiar withthe Old Testament thinking, o revelation and under the heel of theRoman empire. That's one thing without...

...doing a lecture on revelation. Second H:sometimes it really is quantity over quality, meaning if you read Your Bible ten minutes aday and you go to church. Let's say you go to church twice, you get a Biblestudy for an hour and you get in an our worship service and a forty minutemessage from your pastor. That would be considered a very serious Christian inour culture and you add it up, and you got about three hours of God's Word or some sort of ChristianOrthodox influence and if you're listening to codcast Oka we're not against podcast,not against radio, not against. You know not saying you only can listen tosermons on the rate and nothing like that, but we just have to be mindful ofwhat we're putting in and, if you're, putting in dozens of hours of of input from someother source, whatever that is that's going to have that can't, but not shapeyou in some way, whether it's podcast talk, Radio News, Um scrolling, your social media feed, wejust have to be mindful. We are being affected by this. I I think, if you had the the person, who's, reading, goodbooks at night and they're having a Bible study and they're in the word andyes they're, aware of what's going on in the world, but the main thing that'scoming in is not all of this other noise there there's abuilt in kind of self acquired filter that keepsout it's whatever is good and whateverisexcellent was ever praise worthy think on these things. Just in the last word before I turn usto books, yeah TGC colleague, Brett mccrak and has a book coming out andyou can find the TGC article and the Wisdom Pyramid that I think goes alongceven with what you were saying there that just like there's the food pyramidthat should have kind of a more foundational level th. The Biblebecomes that for us and you go on up and I think he's got twitter at thevery top. You know that's the the junk food you can have that once in a while.But if H, if you try to make that the foundation of your diet, you're reallyasking for these sort of problems, I think that Kevin identifies good all right books. Here's my question for you todaywe're talk biographies. Now we could just go on about the dozens ofbiographies. You love, but let's just try to narrow it down. It's likepicking your favorite child. I know but give a few about Christians or noncurtions a fewbiographies that have been especially enjoyable to you now wi'll put out thecavyout. Maybe you read it twenty years ago and you can't you know vouch for everything,that's in it now, but when you read it, it hits you you loved it, and it's beenone of your favorites call in give us some of your favorite biographies man.What a great question this is! This is fun Um. So I this is a question that I asked whenI was really starting to become a serious reader and I ta Aske my pastor,Hey what e? What are some biographies that you think I should read and itjust made a huge difference in my life. So in in that vein, I starte out withRoland Baytons, Martin Luther biography. I mean simple, simple right: There M, Ithink, just Bo anybody can read that one luther is going to be a prettycentral figure. Sticking within the Reformation Bruce Gordon's Calvinbigraphy really appreciated tin within our avagelical tradition. I Know Kevin.You just talked about how you just read it. George Marsdon Jonathan Edwards isabsolutely excellent and hat a wonderful example of being able tocombine social history and and theological history. Few more here I'vegot Um. I recommend this to all incoming seminary students, and that isPeter Browne's. Augustine of Hippo. That's, u 'sbeen a little bit harder,but if you don't understand Augustine and his central role within the Westerntheological tradition, it's going to be hard for you to make sense for a lot ofdifferent things and it really situates Augustine within his time. The last twothat I would mention are kind of Um they're a little bit they're a littlebit different m. One might not think of his abiography, but unbroken by LaurenLorn Hillan Brad about Louis Am Parini is of J corsjust. I still it's crazy methat I still find people who have not read this book. So that's therecommenation just absolutely one of the most gripping and food for a reallyinteresting spiritual thought, because the author, in this case fundamentallymisunderstands her character, but as a...

Christian you'll be able to pick up.Why last one I wanted to mention is Nich, but it's one that I know when Iread it. I just gushed to you guys about it's, not a new one. It isChaplin to the confederacy about Basil, Manley senior by James Fuller. It'sbeen n out by twenty years, but I think if, if you are in the sort of reformedevangelical space- and you don't understand the annabellum period verywell and the dynamics that relate to the civil war and the division betweenNorth and south, you cannot do better. I don't think than reading thisbiography to see just how connected northern and southern reformedavagelicals were and the role that the civil war played in that and I've gotto give a shout out here to um one of the best lines I have ever readantibiography and comes from an absolutely harrowing situation whereBasel Manley Senior is the pastor of First Baptist Church of CharlestonSouth Carolina, there's a slave that slave member of his church, she'ssleeping with her her owner, which is obviously as we look back now. You canclearly see that that's a rape situation, she's she's doing thisagainst her will, but the Church has to discipline her for sleeping withsomebody whoas, not her husband. Well, the pastor realized Thas Bavel Manleysenior realizes the essential problem here, and so what does he do? James Fullerhas one of the best lines. I've ever read t O biography and says he boughther body to save her soul. He bought her. He bought his I slave to save herfrom her master, my goodness that just that US grips meand so remarkable one that probably markable book. That, probably not manypeople ev now haven't read it just in. What's on your list, yeah there's some overlap there, um en Murray's, uh bigaphy of JonathanEdwards, I think, was one of the first serious Christian biographies that Iread. That would be an interesting one for somebody to Paire with GeorgeMarston's biography of Edwards. Um Murray was groundbreaking in many ways: A and really introduced the evangelicalreformed world to a lot of great shants from the past through his publishingwork and through his biography, writing m. But the way in which he did it inthe way in which Marson DIDR are different and complementary in someways and Marston moves beyond him in some ways, and I think mark nomay haveput it best that he thinks that Edwards would have loved. I Murray's biographybest of all the B bigaphries that had beenwritten of him mill wrote thatbefore Marston came out, I think it would still probably be true thatEdward thimself would prefer the the murry biography but imurray writinga bigraphy of EIF ye like me. If he didn't like you, no that wouldnot go well if you're an arminion. You don't want that happen. Sorry Billy Gra,but I think what Marriston did is just such an interesting thing of of beingable to tell t a story to keep the narrativegoing, but also to do an intellectual biography and to have absorbed all ofthat high level material that Edwards was able to produce Um. One that I would recommend of forpeople is is now in one volume by John Piper. Twenty one servants of sovereignjoy, which is the swans, are not silent series seven volumes basically packed into one.Those are not your full length biographies. Those are not yourcritical historians biographies, but I think they're just great launchingpoints to get a life in brief and to use that as a anentry way into somebody else's life and to to go on and Ou know, read theprimary sources that that Piper read. I really enjoyed readingellistronmcgrass biography of J packer Um mcgrat essentially says this is notonly a biography of packer, but it's a biography of twentyeth centuryevangelicalism m. So I love thinking about that world. Another kind of duelpairing would be grantwhackers, not a biography technically of Biligram, but a study of grams life andwork Um peered with Ralph Martin's Big Bography of Bilogram. To me what Martin Li there is WilliamArtin Tham Yep to me. It's almost an example of Christian biography. Writing incredibly well researched a greatnarrative Um. I I learned a lot from that biography. It kindo gives aninside Lance while being critical. At the same time, lots of littl biographies that I like I,I actually don't tend to read: Big Biographies but Chadwick's littlebiography of Augustine or Martin Marty's little biography of Luther. ISi like, theoretically, the the eight...

...hundred page version of the life, but Ialso like to read the challenge of somebody trying to get a whole lifeinto a hundred and fifty pages. I think Kevin EU've read Paul Johnson'sbiography of Churchill, and you know it. It takes a special TAL. I didn't, Idon't want to say it's harder, but it's it's a different kind of challenge tosay get the whole incredible life of Churchill into a slim book versus aneight volume Bergin just in Youve, you've talked with Tommy Kit about hisview on this. Haven't you in terms of biography, writing? Well,he does not think there's almost ever an occasion for an eight hundred, sohe's very much against the Ron Churnou approach and look at whole. Tommy kids.Amazing works, they're all shorter yeah, pretty short, that's definitely thinktis not a smart idea. Yeah. His argument is yo can only read so many books and Ionly have time for somuch. Do I really want to to vote this number of months of my life toworking through this elexander Hammerton Yeah Right Yep? Those aregreat y. You mentioned some of some on my list and I was actually go t say:Hat thereis, a real place for those shorter biographies and thePiperbigraphies, or an older book that people used to read Warran Weiresbywalking with the giants which gave tjust different vinyats of pastors. Iwas going to mention Paul Johnson Churchill value, but but here's someonmy list go back to Eann Murray and again I know it's. It's notacademic history in in you know the sense that you wouldwant to do a critical biography, but the Loy Jones, two volumes when I readthem years ago before I was in ministry for me and Marray were very moving tome and and Yo gave me such a a thrill and a desire and an impetus to preachthat I think Loy Jones and e and Murray probably be very pleased that thebiography would do that in a young man, and so there' There's a place for that.Even if you know other historians have come along and said. Well Y: U W, hedidn't walk on water and let's Fe look at Loyd Jones from all these fasts, butI love that to volume biography one. I read last year, ah called God salesmanon Norman Vincent Peel. I really enjoyed maybe three hundred pages or sonormal hisanpeal is not ot a hero of mine. Of course it helped that he wasin the R ca, and so that was interesting to me as someone who was inthe R C a most of my life, but it really, I knew a little bit about him,but it helped me make sense of twentieth century evangelicalism and indoing so t helped me make sense of twenty first century evangelicalism andit was well written crisply paste. I'm sure you guys have read Allan Gelzo'sRedeemer President on Abraham, Lincoln, there's so many biographies of Lincoln.I love that one he's one of my favorite authors andHistorian and I got to the end and of course you K, I'm just hoping that he doesn't die,but I know he does. I know I know, and I want him to you know, become a bornagain Christian and I know there's a lot of debate about that, but certainlyGelzo, who is a Christian you know his take, is there's not the the evidencethere that you might want to see for Lincoln's conversion. But I love thatbook and and Irom Juts into the golden shore. Great Missionary, biography, one that is a memoir, so I guess moreof an autobiography. But years ago I read Clarance Thomas's memoir, mygrandfather's son. I know people have different opinions of Clarence Thomas.I have a lot of respect for him, but it was a very moving biography, Ot, a great titlecrahy yeah,what a great title for a Book: Yeah, Um, Jo you know David mcculla. Of courseeverything he writes is readable and good. So John Adams, Um Peggy Nuwnan'sbook when character was king on Reagan. You know that's a good title, be goodfor people to remember that title when Kar was King on Reagan, Courseis, a very sympatheticview of Reagan and its M sheoiter great write, Eurni now so lots of goodbiographies out there. So here's my fun question for you is: We are nearing theclotes. If the Lord gave you the time and theopportunity who would you like to write a biography on present company excluded, M, Mine's, Mine's, easy and obvious,and I really do hope. The Lord gives me the opportunity to do this in let's sayfive to ten years, but uh t therehas not been a a proper biography of JohnWitherspoon written since nineteen. Twenty five there's been lots of thingsand there's a lot of good scholarly...

...work being done, but just a biography.People go back to the ashbell green biography in the middle of thenineteenth century, or the Barna Lancing Collins, biography, PresidentPrinceton, who wrote at nineteen twenty five and after that, th those those areit. So I would love to take h what I learned and still have to learn aboutJohn Witherspoon. I don't know if it has best celler written all over it. Il Read. If you send me a copy, I'm notquite sure if it should be a critical biography in the academic sense or or more of a readable, or I guess I'dlike to find that mythical space somewhere in between there. But I wouldI would love to do that in and go back to the archives and learn more aboutthe second half of his career in right to a proper John Wither. SPONBIOGRAPHYCallin. Oh Man, what a great question I love this question. First thoug beforeI get that cliff hanger, I want to give a special shout out: ters OBIGRAPHIES,Forthcoming Book From The Gospel Coletiin, twelve faithful women editedby Melissa, Kruger and Qu Cristin wetherel. A lot of theseshorterbiographies. Like we've, been talking about there reminiscent ofpipers bographis there. It's a companion to the twelve faithful menbook that Gon Robinson and I had done for Baker on a number of differentpastores, an what we can learn from how they suffered. Well, I tell you whatthe women that are profiled, some, some famous ones, less famous ones in therelike gory, ten boom and any chormiicl and folks like that. thosge stories arejust gonna they're, just there very moving, and Ithink it's good timing for those okay. So back to your question Yo, I lovedthat I didn't. I mean I guess that cabin it could have guessed yours inthat case, but Um. You know if I'm I' work through this, my GRANDPA was myhero. I Lo I I would love to write abiography of him. It's just you know. It's not going tohappen for a lot of different reasons, but my grandmother wrote and o hermother's memooir. My grandfather actually wrote kind of a bit of afamily history. I mean, if you're talking about just what w would I loveto do I'd love to do that, but more more likely somebody's going to have toread write abiography of Tim Keller. It's probably not going to be me, butsomebody 's going to need to do that, and now it would be a good time forsomebody to start doing that. But here's the last two that I think youguys will be interested in. Nobody ever did a Baggat, Weiht Someiheard something about this somebody's Ritingbography of Carol Henry. Is thatright? Somebody? You guys not know two guys, don't know it, probably, as Iheard that, but I thought I did too, but there's like there's one littlesort of like guide, Davonjoical thinkers that was produced many yearsago, other than that you've got an autobiography from Henry and it's Oh,when is on you, go you've eerily got like a yeah. It is like a sentialEMOGEICA, mostly about about Arkengay R, or I think, in wrong title there anyway,there's, like a bunch of you, know, multi author contribution, O, not therise of teevangelicals in the INERY, but not a biography m. no, no seen theautobiography is not great. I mean it'd, be good sourcematerial, but it's it's too bitter and it's too focused on other things andthen last is ANCA. Appreciate David Wells, yeah, Yan, intrustle Ti know. Iknow I have every intenpera is with David Wells. I know, but I that wouldbe. That would be fun. So that's my anser. I gidn'n give you one. I giveyou like five, but he's got a story growing up in in Africa and Communist and then John Stott and t sgot more interesting life than some of us John Tailor. If you ever thoughtabout writing a biography of anyone, I'm planning to do a memoir, itsprobably my life, a dream to do. I wouldn't be Latei N Co. COMON breaksall the rules, so I want to go back to the pgrapy one, because there are twoothers that I didn't mention. My famite genre is narrative. Nonfiction about peoplewhoh've been assassinated. I know that's a pretty mitcy topic, but JamesSwansons Maon hunt as rea a amark dever. What's that he livesnext door to mart dever yeah. Does he still yeah hearing that yeah to me? That was a revelation to readthat book of just what somebody could do in terms of putting you into thescene n on the trail. I was just so mesmerized by his writing and hisabilities there. He did one on the Kennedy assassination, which is notnearly as good and then hellhound on his trail by Hampton sins. A similarsort of cinematic feel to it with wonderfulresearch and incredible writing. So...

...brrwe need a separate podcast onnarrative non fiction. That's true assassinations, or can we broaden itnot to Sassiao, just grizsly assassination, say RT, two, twobiographies that I've thought about: writing, which I don't think I everwill. One is Jim Iliot and the other is Johnny Eric, Santata and h. The reasonis that I don't know if anybody'll actually write either of those, becausethey've already had like the official accounts. Johnny did her ownautomography inisane several of them, but I just think some of thisoverlapsed with my interest in Twentyi Century eventalicalism, but she's leftsuch an incredible life and it's so different in terms of a story, but wereally just have her first hand account, but for somebody to do the fullresearch of her full life and Antodo a critical bigraphy, and then Ithink Jimailot was a similar thing with Elizabeth Iliot. She kind of said here is the version ofhis life and nobody's actually gone back and haddone something more critical and tried to put it into wider contexts. So those are two that I think areinteresting. The other one that comes to mind for me is Bob Jones senior, I think, is just a fascinating figureand actually John Matsgo. I think Paul matscos uncle who's historian at BobJones, Universityhas atually written it, but has not been able to get itpublished M, but I think I think that's just a fascinating period in emeglicalhistories, um evengil goals and fundamentalist circin of united andthen bilgraam causes this separation or Abot Jones cause a separation. I justI've thought a lot about that prade in history and I think, that's always fun-to explore all right. Last question coming fullcircle to fat. Man touch down dances, secret question: You did not know. Iwas asking this Queb here goes, but I'm sure you've dreamt of th of this. If you could be exceptionally world class good at oneathletic endeavor, what would it be wha? What what? Whatis your dream? Ok, so H, here's mine- I would love to be. Never it was my dr never was h withinUH. Anything close. I wanted to be a brilliant runner and if, if you couldgive me one athletic moment in the sun, it would bethe Olympics be te. The four by four anchor leg chasing down the other countries running roun. I lovew I've. Alwaysthought that that okay, MR RSPIKING out aften, like my narrative, nonfiction and repeople shooting at you, okay, I'll, try to spice it up but running running,should be well. Yeah running should be more popular. How can people not getinto running it's? So simple people go who's. The fast is it's simple youshould you should get into it, so some sort of drive. We don't need to run, not hunters and gathers it end. It is a sport. You can doanywhere. I I don't. I didn't say that anyone can do it just then, but youcan't do it anywhere. Just these shoe so hoe, drine GAF ended the marathon. Idon't eat it anymore. We have the telegram feeling properly shamed.Werewe are going to hae a whole podcast on exercise books, Oky 'cause. I haveread a lot of them. I have a whole shelf behind me ofrunning books and swimming books. Okay, so some sort of running, maybe the fivethousand, maybe the ten thousand meters, not a sprint, four hundreds as long asshort as I can go, that that would be my athletic dream Justin. I know thatyou have something much much better hoe halting cornhall an yes yeah. I mean it's hard, not to thinkabout Michael Jordan right now, because I've watched many too many hours of mylife, it's hard, not to think of Michael Jordan. I agree, I know way befun to dunk from the fether line. Yeah Um yeah, I'm going to pick like returning a punct return for atouchdown to hear the to get around the edge and to hear thecrowd just going nuts and running so...

...fast that even the fastest guy in thefield cannot get yer the Devonhester of payasing, yes very lung time, regularisdiculous whyouthank one time in high school. They let me like line up in the back field, andI I ran as hard as I could and t it felt like I was running in quicksand. Iwas so slow. I was just immediately pummled in theBackfield, so to be able to do pull a Devan, hess search TATWOULDBE. You know I played one heareof football. I played eighth grade football, and the thing I wasundoubtedly best at was running the warm up lap. It's like this is great. I'm going tobe really good, I'm beating everyone in the warmup lap, but then it turns outin football. People also hit you ndthat was the one part of noffence anddefense I didn't enjoy. I surely Cud could have an y good tunter. Well,thank you, yeah or maybe at the physique to be a decoy for the Pat All right,Collin bring us home with this outstanding into an otherwiseoutstanding show. I think I think just t e the sound, the feelingof just being able to hit a home run of just being able to turn around in ninety eight mile, anhour fastball. You know in a clutch moment and just yeah I mean I, I wasprobably better at baseball than any other sport, but obviously not goodenough to actually really matter in any way, and so that's the one I can relateto and just the IMA. You know the t e the atmosphere of a major leagueballpark, the the the wooden bat, the sound, the way that great hitters talkabout when you hit it. Well, you don't even feel it I mean that would be. That would bepretty cool. I mean I can think of so many different things 'cause. I LoveSports, but that's that's the one that I can relate to in the smallest way,but also we just have the coolest PA IAVE noiimean being a quarterback thatdoesn't make any sense to me at all. I could never do that. I can't think ofthat, like Patrick my homes or something else, ' somebody else I'mgrateful for, but I don't know what it's like to be able to run around, beable to throw the bowl left hand or being able to throw it without lookingor being I mean, I guess that would be cool, also dibebatric my homes, butother than that, just being able to hit a home run, you hit it so well, youdon't even feel it that'd, be pretty cool all right. Well, thank you, man forsharing your hopes and dreams and dashing mine. We will line up for arace at some time in the future. You can tackle me if you can catch me, but h until next time. I hope that ourlisteners out there will or if I god and enjoy Hem forever and read somegood books see later.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (43)